Brynn Brinkman
At the end of July 2016, a month ago, I was in Phoenix for the National Speakers Association annual conference. There are a lot of great people at this event and it’s great for networking and expanding your influence.
On the 2nd to last night, at the dessert reception after an awards ceremony where five speakers were inducted into the speaker Hall of Fame, I met and spoke with Brynn Brinkman. She is a Director of Client Development for four keynote speakers and she’s based in Kansas City, Missouri.
I’m all about having great conversations with people and I had a wonderful heart-to-heart conversation with Brynn. The purpose of this post is to share some of the best insights from our conversation involving the job interview process.
Getting Rejected for the Wrong Reasons
“I applied to a job at a company that I really wanted,” Brynn said to me, “and I was definitely qualified for the role. I had experience, but I didn’t have the degree they were looking for. To get around this I got four glowing references from people who worked at the company.”
“That’s a great strategy,” I said. “Getting references, especially from people who work at the company you are applying to, definitely increases the likelihood you will stand out.”
“Yeah, I thought for sure this would at least get me in the door for an interview,” Brynn said. “But it didn’t. I didn’t even get an interview. The only reason for this was because I didn’t have the degree. That’s all that blocked me and nothing else.”
“I don’t understand that,” I said. “What I don’t understand is that the four glowing references you got didn’t at least get you an interview. A degree is simply a piece of paper and shouldn’t be the only thing that is looked at when someone is applying to a company. At the very least they should have given you an interview. I’m not saying they definitely should have hired you, I’m just saying they could have at least let you in the door. To not at least give you an interview is not right. You are very smart and have good people skills, so you would have impressed them in the interview.”
“Thank you, I agree completely,” Brynn said. “I get that they wanted the degree, but I had the references and other factors that made me a competitive candidate. I would have at least figured that would get me an interview.”
Our society and business world has forgotten that a degree is just a piece of paper. Please know, from the bottom of my heart, this is not in any way whatsoever taking away from someone who got their degree from some kind of college, university, and/or institution. With an undergraduate degree from McDaniel College and a graduate degree from Johns Hopkins, I know for a fact that it is an incredible accomplishment to get your degree. The point Brynn and I are making here is that a degree shouldn’t stop someone from getting an interview if they have other qualifications that prove their worth – in this case, Brynn’s references and prior experience.
I get that there are some careers (like a doctor or lawyer, for example) where specific schooling is an absolute requirement. But in the business world, there are other ways to distinguish yourself. Whether or not someone chose to get a college degree should not determine that candidate’s worth from the perspective of the company they are applying to. The company needs to look at the whole person.
Know Your Reasons For Your Choices
“I didn’t feel like going into a large amount of debt to study something that may not even necessarily be my desired career choice,” Brynn said. “Also, I didn’t know what I wanted to do in life. I found it extremely challenging for 17-year-old me to make that huge decision. And quite frankly I’m so glad I didn’t let 17-year-old me dictate the path of 30-year-old me because I would’ve made a mistake. There are some people who know exactly what they want to go to school for, but I was not one of them. I’m still not! I’d like to change the stigma that surrounds people without college degrees. Not having a degree doesn’t mean we are untrainable and hopeless. Don’t dismiss people simply because they don’t hold a college degree.”
“I can relate to you on that 100%,” I said. “I studied economics and mathematics in undergrad and then I studied finance in grad school. While I liked certain aspects of these subjects, I absolutely despised the careers that came along with them. So I did a 180 degree turn and transitioned into my true passion and love, which is writing, speaking, and coaching. I can laugh about it all now, but it took a massive amount of effort, focus, and determination to change career paths – not to mention many years of hard work and countless long nights. I’m living proof that what you study in school doesn’t have to define your career path. And to your point, I didn’t know what I wanted to do until after I finished college.
“The irony is that I didn’t actually need to study anything I studied. I loved college for the experience itself and the courses were enriching, but the degrees are nothing more to me now than pieces of paper. I love learning so I don’t regret getting the degrees, but it does show that I spent a lot of money to study subjects I don’t even use in my career.”
“That makes sense,” Brynn said. “People in general are stuck paying off extremely difficult monthly loan payments.”
“You bring up an amazing point Brynn,” I said.
Let me emphasize that we are not saying it’s a bad route to get a degree. Getting a degree can be a fantastic decision and can lead to great things. Just make sure you know why you are getting the degree, and that above all else you are getting the degree because you want to and not because someone else wants you to.
Concluding Thoughts
The best companies are the ones that look at the whole individual, not artificial barriers like not having a degree. A company has every right to not select an individual if they’ve given that individual a fair chance. The challenge here is that companies are often overlooking strong candidates for artificial reasons.
A degree is really just a piece of paper. Again, this is in no way whatsoever diminishing or marginalizing someone who gets their degree because that’s a significant accomplishment. With that said, there are many factors to a strong job application and there is more to a candidate than just a degree. I’d rather hire a hard worker with great references, but no degree, as opposed to someone who has a degree, but along with that degree comes a lazy work ethic, a false sense of entitlement, and no real experience.
Finally, do what you want to do, not what society expects of you. Don’t go into massive amounts of debt just because your parents, friends, or other family members are trying to force you to get a degree. Be true to yourself always. If you do get a degree, do it for yourself and not for others. The biggest regret of the dying is that they didn’t live a life true to themselves. Don’t let this be you. If you’re like me and already studied something you don’t like, then learn the lesson of the importance of trusting yourself and apply it in your life moving forward.
What are your thoughts? Please comment below.
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