I had a chance to interview successful author Nick Thacker for this book, someone whom I communicated with in the past and featured in-depth in my previous book Reach Your Mountaintop. His insights are perfect for us as we head into the final chapters of this book – they cover the sentiment of what we’ve already discussed, add new insights, and are the ideal preparation for the ending of this book.
Some of the questions I asked Nick are similar to the questions I asked other experts, but the beauty is we get to hear another perspective. Nick is a genius and has a lot to offer us. His level of authenticity is through the roof, and he’s a fantastic living example of the long-term benefit of being authentic.
It’s Not Always Easy to Be Authentic, But Do It Anyway
“What is the secret to being authentic in a world that is trying to get us to be like everyone else?” I asked Nick.
“I love this question,” Nick said, “because of the implication. I hope everyone can agree that authenticity is a FAR better long-term strategy than a lack of transparency. There’s really no ‘secret,’ either. Often it comes down to a simple question: Is what I’m about to do/say/think the easy way out? If so, it’s probably not authentic.
“Of course this needs some clarification because not EVERYTHING that’s easiest is wrong or bad or inauthentic. It’s just that the times when our career capital will benefit most by being authentic, it’s usually easiest to NOT be authentic. Tell the truth and be real, even if it hurts you. If it hurts someone else, do it tactfully, privately, and out of a place of respect and support. If you can’t do that, don’t do anything – move on.”
“When you say ‘It’s just that the times when our career capital will benefit most by being authentic, it’s usually easiest to not be authentic’,” I asked, “are you saying that when our careers will benefit from being authentic, we are not authentic because it’s easier to do so? And we don’t realize that being authentic would have been a better choice because it didn’t feel like it at the moment? I’m making up this example off the top of my head: Let’s say someone is working a job on a project. And let’s hypothetically say they despise the project and are barely making any progress on it. When they sit down with their boss for an update, it would be easiest to sugarcoat the update and make themselves look good. But it might be better for them to be transparent and authentic by saying something like, Look, this project is not going well, I’m struggling with it, etc. Upon hearing that, a reasonable boss might give them help, reassign them to a different project, or give them a different job altogether. But none of those benefits would have occurred if the person doing the tough project wasn’t authentic and transparent. Is this example a good demonstration of what you mean by that?”
“Exactly like that,” Nick said. “Think about the possible outcomes of that situation: A reasonable boss would understand, and you’d either get reassigned, given more/different resources, or told to suck it up with a promise that the next project will be amazing. Or if you have an unreasonable boss: You do the hard thing and tell him the truth, and he might fire you. In which case I have to believe that outcome was just a matter of time – you were never going to be really happy there with that sort of unreasonable ‘leadership,’ and you and your career are going to be better for it down the road.
“Or – and this has been my experience telling the truth and doing the hard thing in exactly this sort of situation – your unreasonable boss might actually surprise you with one of the reasonable boss’s responses. Finally, consider what happens when you have a reasonable and competent boss. Your output and results probably speak for themselves, so what are they going to be thinking if you suck up and tell them things are fine, you like the project, etc.?”
It’s Okay to Authentically Share Your “Why” With Others
“What are some tips and tactics you use to stay true to yourself and follow your own inner compass even when other people are not agreeing with what you’re doing?” I asked Nick.
“Neil Gaiman’s commencement speech should be required reading, or – even better – required watching/listening,” Nick said. “He talks about ‘moving toward your mountain,’ and how everything you do professionally either moves you closer to or farther from that mountain. Most of us have no trouble – if we really take some time to process and think about it – knowing what our ‘mountain’ is, so it’s pretty easy to recognize what will move us closer.
“I used to do web design and marketing as a freelancer, as well as my day job and writing. When I became a dad, I knew immediately that freelance was moving me farther from my mountain, because my mountain was having a family and entertaining/inspiring people through writing. Period. It was then just a matter of telling the clients I had and anyone ‘in the pipeline’ the truth about this, and start moving that work off my plate. Eventually, I stopped doing it altogether, save for helping friends or family. It wasn’t easy, but I knew it was what I had to do.
“Best of all? Every time I was authentic and truthful about the ‘why’ behind this decision, the response was overwhelmingly positive – they all got it right away, and it was no trouble at all moving that type of work to another person or place.”
“I’ve heard some people suggest,” I said, “that it’s best to never give others an explanation. While there are cases in the ‘move on’ category that may warrant no explanation, I really resonate with you when you say that it’s good to share an authentic and truthful ‘why’ behind a particular decision. When I’m saying no to someone, or not agreeing to the request, I’ve also found it beneficial to share a ‘why,’ especially when the person you are communicating with is someone you like and trust.”
“Right!” Nick said. “I’ve always been a ‘why guy,’ so I typically project that feeling on others. At the very least, even if they disagree about my reason, they can’t deny the fact that their assumed reason is different than my stated one. Maybe that’ll hold up in court better.
“The ‘never complain, never explain’ mantra was I think from Benjamin Disraeli. It’s British, so I feel like it must be wise, but it doesn’t mean we have to always listen to it either. I don’t think I’m very good at never explaining!”
“I’m the same way,” I said. “You mentioned Neil Gaiman’s commencement speech, and I listened to it. It was one of the best I’ve ever heard – at the same level as Steve Jobs’ commencement speech, as well as J.K. Rowling’s and Conan O’Brien’s. I had one of those intuitive realizations when Neil said how he struggles to enjoy the journey. I’ve struggled with that as well. I never really stopped to enjoy all that I did with my second book, the first one I featured you in. I’m hard at work on my third book now. My girlfriend, who is very supportive of all I do, says that I’m overly ambitious, and she’s absolutely right. Ambition is an awesome quality to have, but there has to be a time when you stop and have fun. I’ll have to make it a point once I publish this third book to consciously stop and enjoy it.”
“Yeah, I love the concept of celebrating ‘little victories,’ “ Nick said. “It’s as simple as grabbing a slightly more expensive whiskey whenever I get another 100 reviews on a book or treating myself to a nice night out when I hit a milestone. Things like that seem to help calm the nerves about the negative influences in our lives as well.
“I think it was Tim Ferriss who first said he didn’t want to be rich, he just wanted to live like the people who were. I love that sentiment – I don’t care about having money, but I do want safety, security, and comfort for my family. I don’t want to wait until I’m 65-years-old to start enjoying my life!”
Don’t Be Afraid to Splurge and Enjoy Life, but Do so Within Reason
“What are a few of your hacks for staying on a budget and building wealth, yet at the same time splurging every once in a while and having fun?” I asked.
“I don’t really believe I’ll retire,” Nick said. “I mean this in principle. Retirement might not be a ‘myth,’ but it is for me. My family doesn’t feel like waiting around for a day when there will be a huge chunk of money waiting for us in an account. We don’t want to wait until then to enjoy life. We have kids, friends, are young, and have enough income to do things that are fun.
“Because of those things, we spend money on experiences that we will remember, and we’re not afraid to spend a lot – within reason. We won’t go into debt for this stuff, and I’ll always be focused on saving and bringing in more money, but we’re not interested in socking away everything we earn and living frugally for some mysterious time in the future when we’ll be able to spend it.
“The practical: We save regularly and automatically, splitting the income into different accounts (retirement, college savings, emergency fund, vehicle, house, etc.). We still have retirement accounts, but I can’t imagine a day when I’ll just want to sit around and not work on something. We track spending to make sure we’re not getting ridiculous in any particular area and pay off credit cards each month.
“In addition, I’m always looking for ways to make life easier or better, like home automation, outsourcing, and things like that. And I’m always looking for ways to earn more. By focusing on these two things, I believe our lives can be spent focusing on the things that are truly important.”
When It’s Necessary to Make a Change, Have the Guts to Make the Change
“Some people get going with their dreams and make initial progress,” I said to Nick, “but can’t seem to fully break free from the restraints, obligations, and expectations of friends and family who want them to choose a certain career path or make a particular decision. Any advice for someone who is making good initial gains, but still facing the daily struggle of dealing with people who don’t believe in their dreams? This includes dealing with unavoidable people like family and coworkers.”
“I hate to say it,” Nick said, “but I’m a firm believer in removing negative influences from your life as soon as you recognize them. Have a terrible boss? Quit. Have a friend who’s fun to hang out with but always brings you, the world, and everything down? Get a different friend who supports you. Have a family member who doesn’t buy into your dreams/goals? Move away.
“This is tricky when it’s a spouse, but I’d suggest it’s a deeper problem than lack of belief; there are people out there trained to help. For the other instances above, I’ve dealt with those situations and done exactly what I suggested. It wasn’t easy, and it wasn’t without pain. But I am FAR better off now without the negative influences in my life, and it turns out there were people I liked even more who also supported my dreams and goals as well. True story – I moved away from my home state, quit a well-paying job, and stopped engaging with old friends. Life continued, and I’m happier than ever for it.
“It helps that I’ve always been independent, and a bit arrogant. I’m confident in my abilities, but honest about my weaknesses, and I think that has helped me say ‘no’ to these situations and start actively trying to replace them with better ones.”
Parting Shots from Author Nick Thacker
“What are some ways an individual could get to know themselves better?” I asked.
“I love doing the personality profile tests, like Myers-Briggs, Disc, etc.,” Nick said. “They aren’t going to reveal anything you don’t already know, but they will teach you some interesting quirks about how you work, process, and interact with the world. By studying this kind of thing and processing it offline – thinking purposefully, journaling, discussing with a significant other – it helps us understand why we do and feel the things we do and feel. Over time we get better and better at knowing and predicting how we’ll respond in certain situations, and lean into them or avoid as necessary.”
Nick mirrors Kevin Kruse in mentioning the personality profile tests like Myers-Briggs and Disc.
“You are independent and confident in your abilities,” I said to Nick. “What are your thoughts on the following quote from Muhammed Ali: ‘It’s hard to be humble when you’re as great as I am.’ Do you take that quote to be ego, or do you think that since Ali knew he really was that good, he was genuinely stating the fact that it’s hard for someone at his level to be humble?”
“No idea,” Nick said. “I’ll let you know when I get to that level. But seriously, if he’s the ONLY ONE at that level, literally everyone else on the planet cannot understand what it’s like to be him, so how can we possibly even consider anything else but that he’s an egotistical ass for saying it, right? Maybe if you lined up MJ, Michael Phelps, Ali, and a few other greats, and they all agreed that we mortals have no idea what it’s like to be as great as them, I’d buy into the quote a bit more.
“But then the relationally conscious side of me would wonder why it was so important for them to need us to know that. I hope I’ll always err on the side of humility. At least when a humble person fails, no one’s surprised or upset by it. But when a braggart fails, it’s open season.”
Nick Thacker is amazing, isn’t he? He’s the perfect mix of humility and confidence, the Mountaintop Mindset and authentic leadership at its finest. And you’re going to love who we hear from next.
This is chapter 12 of The Power of Authentic Leadership: Activating the 13 Keys to Achieving Prosperity Through Authenticity. Check out what Nick Thacker has to say about focus and having a general grouping for your projects.
